Or you perfect? If by community you mean confessing every single sin in your life to a group of virtual strangers, disclosing your personal financial information, and seeking the approval of the group to change jobs, buy a house, start a family then no,Read more , Christian community can have so many different levels, and not everyone is seeking the same depth in all relationships. Stonebriar Community Church. Spiritual authority is the result of Gods power shown through spiritual gifts and deep experiences with God. Take Your Power Back we all know many invested their heart and lives into this place, only to be punished and abused when their performance was not up to the public image WM wanted society to perceive of their organization. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. like hes a programmed automaton. The only thing I can discern between the lines is that something went very wrong. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. search clear. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. In response to a tweet by a critic questioning Wagners seeming humility when he announced he was taking a leave of absence in September, Wagner tweeted: Mission accomplished. Wagner later deleted that tweet. MacArthur's Grace Community Church of Sun Valley had been involved in months of legal battles with state and local officials . You cant find any. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. even so, i think its patently obvious that living as the 1% by 1st world standards, even in part, is lavish by any and all standards. seems pretty far-fetched to me, but sure makes for a great explanation and a great story (if youre not Todd or the supposed wealthy person, this is what you were told). I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. Wagner was tearful during his speech in the video Sunday. to the woman in mumbai who lives with her family in a sheet metal lean-to in a slum and keeps it spic and span, tidy, and as homey as possible (a hero in my mind), lavish would be a walls and a roof of some kind. Remember how CJ wrote a book on humility and then some of the staff said he was anything but and instead was quite controlling. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. It is kindness that brings people to repentance. the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. My people hath been lost sheep: Once you see it, you cant unsee it. Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. Photo taken March 7, 2014. You are correct. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). The Porch. ingratiating and wheedling in a way Does anyone know if the Re:Engage marriage program that Watermark started is worthwhile? It is not as simple as walking away. Im Jesus name. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. So, if they can sell their copyrighted material, that is just the same as authors getting paid for their writing or bible study writers selling their studies in bookstores. As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. And some community groups are less intense. Gotcha. +++++++++++++++++. How many have you all lead to Christ? You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. Genuine question, The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. He walked with an air of superiority that was disgusting. Very humble of you. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. For every story that IRead more . If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) You are way off base. Im sorry Todd but Im praying for you and your family through this rough times. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? | Grace Community Church. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. There is a filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd Wagner. If the leaders deem you unworthy of their support due to pride or sin struggle reasons, they will absolutely unequivocally unabashedly and with zero conscience or compassion, write you off. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. Is this standard really higher or is it just more specific? Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. You are probably the person ego roles in Lexuss each day when you pull in the church but if Lord has gifted something you are too quick to put that person under the bus. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. obey your leaders? In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. what is lavish? I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. Watermark Community Church abuse. In these community groups you are enmeshing your entire life into the church. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. Wow! Sounds like the perfect target for attack, I was looking at Watermarks governance section on its website and two things stuck out to me: 1) they have 2 doctrinal statements, one for members and one for elders and 2) they are Elder-Rule, Elder-Led. There are 2 Todd Wagners in Dallas. Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. Perhaps its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to give counsel. the family in a 1970s 2,100 sf home of their own in the suburbs may feel they have the short end of the stick, and see the family in the newer 3,400 sf home as having amazing luxuries. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. Hi. Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? And why? I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. Forgot account? The elders at Watermark, along with Wagner and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. In principle it was excellent. 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