He wanted to go do something else. Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. Or as the He gives them exactly what they want, and look at what happens. And the king said, "I will give them.". WebWhen Sauls agents came up, she pretended that David was ill and placed a household idol and a net of goats hair in his bed, as if her husband were still lying there (vv. And these men, they need to be buried. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. And David sought the face of the Lord. Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". How much food did Jesus produce? The young lions lack and suffer hunger; but those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. Although he had peace at this time, I think he was worried because they just had two successive rebellions, and were almost to the point of victory over King David until they were eliminated. Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. Throughout the centuries, the original Gibeonites continued to exist as a people, although King Saul schemed to destroy them. The Gibeonites, howev Seven of Sauls descendants were hanged as a result. And we are supposed to be ready. Joshua 9:25-27 "And now, here we are, in your hands; do with us as it seems good and right to do to us." And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? (4:10). Her actions made David realize that he had violated another of God's commands by leaving the bodies of Saul, Jonathan, and the seven other sons unburied. By this time, Moses had died and was buried. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. David did all this, it seems, off the top of his head. Leviticus 26:3-4 If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them, then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." We still need some more background. King David was probably huffing and puffing, "I can't lift this thing! Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Today, I want to visit one of King David's lesser-known black marks, and draw some lessons from it at the end. We can't withstand them. The cities of refuge were designed (among other things) to stop and prevent these feuds from happening. What should we get out of this? This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. Why so? ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. Then, pray for all you are worth so that your relationship with God and Jesus Christ is strong when the famine hits. But it does not say so here in so many words. Jonathan. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". LAMECH: FALL OUT FROM POLYGAMY; 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. During Davids reign, the people of Gibeon demanded that all of Sauls children be put to death so as to atone for a severe famine. Then the men of David swore to him, saying, "You shall go out no more with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.". God's correction may come a But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. However, the Gibeonites did. They were appeasing their own god to send rain. Community answers are sorted based on votes. Think about it. That is not what it says here. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. WebThe Gibeonite Deception - Now when all the kings west of the Jordan heard about these thingsthe kings in the hill country, in the western foothills, and along the entire coast of the Mediterranean Sea as far as Lebanon (the kings of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites) they came together to wage war against Joshua and The stories of such people like Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, and on through the chapter give us hope that like them we can overcome and be assured of entering the Kingdom of God. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. The choice by Adam and Eve in the garden was a sin, and they paid for it through death. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. There were no conditions. Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." A snare is a trap. Because of what had been going on, all the turmoil in this life and the kingdom, David was not spiritually prepared to face it. Instead, they told a story that either ignored the truth completely or, at least, shaded the truth in such a way that it was full of guile and deceit. Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. It springs out when you are not ready. 4. 3:6: "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? They didn't present themselves in a truthful light saying that they were neighbors who respected Israel's strength and godly advantage and were suing for peace. WebThese lists are not concerned with the Gibeonites at Gibeon, but with the Benjaminite group which came to settle at Gibeon in the course of time. 1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. Then they replied, It was Saul who planned to destroy us, to keep us from having any place at all in Israel. I think he was distracted by all the cares of his office of being king. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. The last time Saul did swear not to kill David, Saul swore "by YHWH" not to kill david he broke it many times over since. Also David seems to have only spared Mephibosheth only because he made an oath, and not for the fact that he was only five years old and did not participate in killing the Gibeonites? God spared them as a people, but His nation condemned them to endless servitude. However, this chapter drops a few hints about it. God!before the Lordin Gibeah of Saul. God extends blessings far farther into the future than He does the curses. And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. You are no longer fit to be king." Clarify WebThe designation Nethinim is derived from the Hebrew verb natan ("to give over"), which can mean devoting someone to cultic service. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. That is the bottom line. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. So let seven of Sauls sons or grandsons be handed over to us, and we will execute them before the Lord at Gibeon, on the mountain of the Lord.. So the famine continued for another half a year. It is tainted.". He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. I do not think that King David thought through the implications of this matter very well. And when Saul saw any strong man or any valiant man, he took him for himself. Instead, David brings back twice as many. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. All they wanted, they said, was a peace treaty with Israel; then they would return to their distant home. So David asked the Lord for help, and the Lord answered, Saul and his family are guilty of murder, because he had the Gibeonites killed. There is a difference. I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. King David was perhaps the only converted person in the entire nationmaybe besides the high priest of the time, but we do not know. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. Another thing that God said to do was not done. King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. This is interesting. Leviticus 26:18-20 And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. This is what we have to learnunderstanding the distinction between guilt for sin, and the lingering effects of sin. And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit. CONFLICT OF THE AGES ARTICLES Asked August 31 2013 I think he was very low. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. He will not relent. That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. SERIES INTRODUCTION There is more space given to David's flaws than anyone else in the whole Bible. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. WebSaul slew the Gibeonites, not simply as the son of Kish, but as the king of Israel, and therefore involved all Israel with him in the violation of the national oath; and hence, until the evil should be put away by the execution of the immediate offender or his representatives, all Israel must suffer. Wherever he turned, he harassed them. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. Saul, after having disqualified And Agag, he's a nice guy! And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. He did not perform any miracle, or any other thing to show that He was happy with the way that things turned out. Scripture has said this explicitly. How many rebellions were there? the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the There are so many things I have got to do.". It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. There was a great deal of turmoil in Israel leading up to this time. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. . The Israelites had taken an oath concerning them, but in his zeal for Israel and Judah, Saul had sought to kill them.) The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." They had advance warning. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. There is no record in the Bible of Saul killing Gibeonites. How many wars were fought? How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. God did not necessarily overlook all their sins, but He certainly forgave them. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, There is not much wiggle room in all this. The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. Then they went back and took Ai. Then we have verses 34 through 36. That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. It cut us off from God. They are still there. WebA three years' famine in the days of David was attributed to God's anger at the unexpiated crime of Saul in slaying the Gibeonites. Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. A little further down, we read: II Samuel 21:2 . Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death [he cannot buy his way out]. Report. He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. So he brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there; and they gathered the bones of those who had been hanged. So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul; and the five sons of Michal [Merabsee margin of most Bibles] the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. They did not inquire. They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. David asked the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for (cover) Sauls sin of murder. Why are they where they were? However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee.". Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. It does not seem so. 17 Then the children of Israel journeyed and came to their cities on the third day. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. In the economy of God's providence, however, such tiny events often matter much. So, he spared Agag, and he spared a lot of the good stuff. II Samuel 21:10-11 Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." These conflicting views on Saul would continue long past the biblical era and into modern times. 2Samuel 21:1, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.. To re-establish peace between the two tribes, David fulfills the Gibeonites request to sacrifice two heirs of Israels throne, Sauls sons and grandsons. WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. Good question. This does not make any sense. This was a long time ago. We do not know how long before II Samuel 21 this incident happened. You might say a whole cycle of generations. Where have you been, David? Verse 1 did say that it was "Saul and his bloodthirsty house" who had massacred the Gibeonites. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and Vote Up God is just. By deluding himself that he could solve any problem; by presuming that the end justifies the means; by deliberately countermanding clear and specific orders from the Most High God; Saul not only failed to remove an evil people from the land, he also guaranteed the ultimate destruction of his own family. There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. And King David rolled over and let this happen. However, that is not the case. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. Think about this for a moment. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. WebDavid serves Saul with music on his harp Nov 24, 1025. He received good marks in Scripture. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. Notice that I Kings begins not many chapters after this. The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. They did not seek God in this matter. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. King Saul exhibited that hubris, that overweening pride in his own decisions and that unfounded confidence in his own good judgment that he brought certain and lasting disaster upon his own dynasty. Why does the Bible say David spared Mephibosheth then offered him to the Gibeonites to be killed? Why wasn't I told about this?" There was a covenant with those people that not only Joshua and the people honored, but also God Himself honored as well. But what actually did Saul do to the Gibeonites? He says that He visits the iniquity upon them. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. He was the king. He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. Also, the Lord pronounced, It is a result of the massacre by Saul and welcome classification because Saul indeed destroyed the Gibeonites in the Bible. ", "She's been doing that for six months? II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the L ORD. You can read about them for yourself in the Book of Joshua, chapters nine and ten. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the But, are these people telling the truth? He just simply rolled over. In fact, look down to verse 15, II Samuel 21:15-17 When the Philistines were at war again with Israel, David and his servants with him went down and fought against the Philistines; and David grew faint. Is that what happened?" This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." It won't do anybody any good lying here dead. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." Why did Herod like to listen to John the Baptist, who criticized Herods lifestyle? All it is, was, "We want blood, and anyone from the house of Saul will do.". This is very, very important for this vignette in King David's life. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. He was not thinking spiritually. It would take three or four generations for perversion to be kicked out of a society. They engaged in battle, and Israel won, but the people and king Saul said, "Look at all this nice livestock! We had before that the episode with Amnon and Tamar. One of them toward the end of this list is King David. We do not know when it happened. I will do it." He simply folded, giving the Gibeonites everything they wanted. For many today, this time period is ancient history. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. The Gibeonites achieved their short term goal - survival; but they paid a terribly long term price for it - virtual slavery! Summary:2 Samuel Chapter 212 Samuel 21 Avenging the Gibeonites A. David avenges the Gibeonites. I don't know a great deal about this particular segment of those biblical people called the Hittites. We have a very simple biblical principle here: God is just. He understood it. THE STORY OF JOSEPH - The prophet Zechariah asks a question that is forever pertinent to all spiritual considerations and decisions: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" And they sent them to Joshua at Gilgal. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. II Samuel 21:8-9 So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. Share Then there is another thing. Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' It is in II Samuel 21. Israel plagued by allowing the deception 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. 2. They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. You had to go up quite a bit. DECEPTION AND COST Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. Time to retire!" Joshua and that generation did not do their entire job, and so they were stuck. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin Report, August 29 2022 and for his bloody house. 0 responses The consequences are not the guilt. If you read 2Samuel 21 carefully, it seems possible that Saul and his house may have been trying to get the Gibeonites territory. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. The latter believed that Saul's desire was to destroy them utterly. This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. When this righteous ruler turned to God, the Lord showed him that arrogant error of his predecessor. But Joshua had the final decision. Verse 5 does not say that the guilt of a person extends to his great-great grandchildren. They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the tomb of Kish his father. 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They looked to him and were radiant, and when did saul attack the gibeonites family takes that long to from!